An interview is meant to be a give-and-take situation.
Denying any form of moral sense or conscience, he regards all the social virtues as evolved from the instinct for self-preservation, the give-and-take arrangements between the partners in a defensive and offensive alliance, and the feelings of pride and vanity artificially fed by politicians, as an antidote to dissension and chaos.
To humans, it would look like the natural give and take of a long battle.
He remained an ardent student throughout life, able to give and take in association with the many scholars, American and foreign, whom he numbered among his friends and correspondents.
The give and take of thought had by a swift transformation of values come by something more than its own.